tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post8996872678251530218..comments2023-09-12T01:15:08.356-07:00Comments on Honduras Coup 2009: Elections: reject, accept, or other?RAJhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00097415587406899236noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-46305332730150853542009-11-23T18:33:20.419-08:002009-11-23T18:33:20.419-08:00That's the way we vote here in the Bahamas, ac...That's the way we vote here in the Bahamas, actually. In part, it's to prevent floating ballots. Here where the number of voters are so small, it can be used if a race is very close (only a few votes) and enough votes are challenged to make a difference. If it goes to court and votes are thrown out, they can unseal the counterfoils to know which ballots to throw out. Fairly standard stuff.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14039295868021929399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-51086664676335414512009-11-23T15:54:30.857-08:002009-11-23T15:54:30.857-08:00Rns-
Thanks. Wasn't my intention to be alarm...Rns- <br /><br />Thanks. Wasn't my intention to be alarmist; but the process as you describe does seem to leave open the possibility of later ballot inspection, perhaps not so much as to who one actually votes for (I doubt whether Micheletti actually strongly prefers a Liberal win at this point) but simply to prevent/deter null votes, especially in light of their stated determination to enforce the obligitory nature of the vote.Doug Zylstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03023935711242140793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-25511621080155714862009-11-23T15:11:51.545-08:002009-11-23T15:11:51.545-08:00Doug, I'll take this one. Yes, the ballots ar...Doug, I'll take this one. Yes, the ballots are uniquely numbered. The numbers are there officially to support the audit procedures.<br /><br />However, the published election procedures seem to indicate these numbers are recorded in the process, and if they're recorded at all, they could be used to relate individuals and their ballots.<br /><br />In voting, the published procedure says you go in to a table, and turn over your ID. You hold out your hands for them to see you don't have any ink marks to indicate you already voted. The ID is then checked against the voting list, and if it matches, you are issued ballots. You mark your ballots and fold them once and return to the table. Your ballot is verified and then your ballot is "sealed" (stamped with a seal, I suspect). <b>"Verified"</b> isn't explained but could well include checking that the ballot papers you return are the same ones you were issued. At this point you can deposit them in the respective color coded urns. Next your finger is marked with indelible ink, and your ID returned.<br /><br />The voting process is described in a La Tribuna <a href="http://www.latribuna.hn/web2.0/?p=67062" rel="nofollow">article</a> from yesterday.RNShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14197289255196253989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-69708702463894390412009-11-23T14:32:34.019-08:002009-11-23T14:32:34.019-08:00I think this discussion slightly misses the point....I think this discussion slightly misses the point. It has always been more than just the coup. It is the larger class structure and weakness of economic and political accountability systems with or without Zelaya. You need a continual mobilization, with or without elections.Global Teach Inhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863862828187764627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-12877450879673468592009-11-23T13:28:16.707-08:002009-11-23T13:28:16.707-08:00Raj -
Any idea on the rumour that ballots are be...Raj - <br /><br />Any idea on the rumour that ballots are being numbered and thus being able to be correlated to the exact voter?<br /><br />http://twitter.com/pichuzelaya/status/5987736487Doug Zylstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03023935711242140793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-69643395331696579002009-11-23T08:54:17.929-08:002009-11-23T08:54:17.929-08:00We Americans have one besetting foreign policy sin...We Americans have one besetting foreign policy sin: we believe that democracy can solve all problems. Sadly, we have confused elections for democracy. <br /><br />We cannot supply Honduras with democracy and, indeed, democracy is only part of what it needs. Terrible wrongs have been done. Wrongs are not set right with democracy, but with justice. Honduras has terrible problems. Solutions are not discovered with democracy, but with truth. <br /><br />We could, at least in some small measure, supply Honduras with truth and justice. But we have none to give. Therefore, we should silence our howling hubris and admit that we have nothing to offer Honduras except our absence. <br /><br />--CharlesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-35654851448111672032009-11-23T05:06:14.226-08:002009-11-23T05:06:14.226-08:00The Honduran military's role in this coup has ...The Honduran military's role in this coup has been decisive. It's now growing, and increasingly open. The consistent denial and minimization of the military's role by the U.S. government had had correspondingly more serious consequences. Any discussion of "re-establishing democracy" must deal with how the military are to be reined in.<br /><br />The administration's refusal to make the formal designation of a military coup during the period when it claimed to oppose the illegal Micheletti government was a strong signal to the coup-makers that they could hold out until the elections. The complete silence of U.S. officials about the military's murders, beatings, and arrests of non-violent demonstrators strengthened the climate of impunity in Honduras, and has greatly increased the danger to those opposing the coup. <br /><br />Now it's become known that the military has sent letters to all the country's mayors asking for the names and phone numbers of resistance activists in their communities, which in the current context includes candidates who have withdrawn from the campaign and people encouraging a boycott of the elections. Our government's willingness to legitimate elections held under these conditions of dictatorship, and its refusal to criticize the crimes of the military or the civilians who head the coup government, makes us complicit in the intimidation, harassment, and violence the Honduran regime is now inflicting on citizens in resistance -- and in the worse crimes for which the way is being prepared.<br /><br />For two months military and police squads have made nighttime sweeps through poor neighborhoods in the capital. In the last two weeks they've come to the homes of individual resistance activists where they've threatended, harassed, and beaten household members. The last five months of arrests, attacks, and assassinations leave little doubt about where things are headed if any substantial percentage of the mayors have supplied those lists (the letters went out in the last week of October; see <a href="http://www.rightsaction.org/Alerts/Honduran_coup_resistance_day147_alert93__112109.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">here</a> for text).<br /><br />No discussion of putting Honduras back on a legal and constitutional footing, resolving the political crisis, and restoring international recognition and support -- much less anything that could be called reestablishing democracy -- can ignore the question of how the military can be hemmed in. And no answer to that question can avoid dealing with that military's prime sponsor, the U.S. government.Nellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01969732734453586544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-37598676561638445002009-11-22T21:24:18.517-08:002009-11-22T21:24:18.517-08:00The situation of boycotting the elections recalls ...The situation of boycotting the elections recalls to me Jose Saramago's novel Seeing, where an election is held but over 70 per cent of the ballots have been left blank. The civic lapse leaves the govt so confused they hold another election a week later, but this time 83 per cent of the ballots are blank. The situation sends the govt into a complete panic - they have no way to legitimise themselves nor even a real way to respond - and eventually its true character is revealed. Considering how much the coup govt has relied on supposedly legal and democratic arguments for ousting Zelaya, this would be the perfect rejection of it - not just a rejection of the coup govt but of the very political structure that enabled it and gave it legitimacy. <br /><br />As it stands, the options being presented are options defined by the coup govt. The most radical thing to do is to reject even the very frame of this decision. Only then will the coup govt be exposed for what it is. I imagine this would be what they fear the most.David Marin-Guzmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06696488378134775986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-32169037115933725982009-11-22T16:37:54.738-08:002009-11-22T16:37:54.738-08:00I agree with the issue of thinking about condition...I agree with the issue of thinking about conditions under which the international community might recognize the new government (except, probably, the US -- although the US needs to think about under what conditions it will lift the suspension of non-military humanitarian assistance)<br /><br />Let's forget about the elections, odd as that sounds. Let's think about what might need to happen to bring Honduras back into the fold of the international community, starting with the OAS.<br /><br />There's a debate tomorrow in the Permanent Council of the OAS tomorrow, which might be worth tracking.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16596363377059790052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-89342907874725970732009-11-22T14:18:34.957-08:002009-11-22T14:18:34.957-08:00...maybe there are more than two alternatives; mor...<i>...maybe there are more than two alternatives; more than the two bad choices of recognizing an election conducted under extreme repression and violation of the rule of law, or rejecting it and with it the possibility of a future resolution for the innocent millions.</i><br /><br />That's the subject of my next post :)<br /><br />I felt the need to write a post against rejecting elections to bookend my post on why elections wouldn't return democracy. Only then could I write a post about what to do facing two lousy options (accepting or rejecting election). You've already given that a good start. I'll probably take it in a slightly different direction.bozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13233148632004720002noreply@blogger.com