tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post1880399224716182306..comments2023-09-12T01:15:08.356-07:00Comments on Honduras Coup 2009: Is there anything new in the Supreme Court's comments on the San Jose Accord?RAJhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00097415587406899236noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-19276209418748541062009-08-25T10:28:42.481-07:002009-08-25T10:28:42.481-07:00The original 1982 Constitution and the current ver...The original 1982 Constitution and the current version showing all amendments is available at Georgtown University's <a rel="nofollow">website</a> <i>Political Database on the Americas</i>.<br /><br />I actually obtained my copies of the legislation from restricted access databases through my university. But you can get this code, plus many other Honduran legislative documents (including, again, the constitutions), at <a href="http://www.lexadin.nl/wlg/legis/nofr/oeur/lxwehnd.htm" rel="nofollow">another website</a> <i>The world law guide</i>. The version you want is Decreto 9-99-E, here titled <i>Codigo Procesal Penal 2002</i>,<br /><br />Be advised: at least on my connection, this site-- in the Netherlands-- does not always come up.<br /><br />And of course, if you know the title (Decreto 99-9-E, for example) you can use the marvellous Library of Congress database, <a href="http://www.glin.gov/search.action" rel="nofollow">GLIN</a>, to download PDFs of the original published versions of laws as they appeared in the <i>Gaceta</i>, which normally is the step that makes their implementation official.RAJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00097415587406899236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-5887900927107318492009-08-25T07:30:57.742-07:002009-08-25T07:30:57.742-07:00Forgive me if you have already posted these links ...Forgive me if you have already posted these links in other blog posts, but I was wondering if you could post a link to the most recent version of the Constitution and the most recent Penal Processual Code.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08538017721084759101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-79161788871957069282009-08-24T14:16:39.807-07:002009-08-24T14:16:39.807-07:00Charles: I think that there has been some uncertai...Charles: I think that there has been some uncertainty about the provenance of the letter. So much has clearly been forged, and then there are the things that many people believe are forged but have no proof of it.<br /><br />As for Xiomara de Zelaya, constitutionally, family members and spouses of presidents (which everyone acknowledges Zelaya was, even the coup group) cannot be candidates for a period of time. So she is out.RAJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00097415587406899236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-11316416989846439322009-08-24T14:13:29.141-07:002009-08-24T14:13:29.141-07:00The President of the Congress cannot be candidate ...The President of the Congress cannot be candidate for President; and no one occupying the office of President can ever run for President. So, since Micheletti asserts that he is the President, he can never be a candidate for it again.<br /><br />Unless he wants to suspend the constitution...RAJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00097415587406899236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-50270542888525819652009-08-24T12:32:07.818-07:002009-08-24T12:32:07.818-07:00RAJ -
Just a thought.. What would prevent Michel...RAJ - <br /><br />Just a thought.. What would prevent Micheletti, in his brave new constitutional world, from asking for the resignation of Elvin Santos as PL candidate and inserting himself. Seeing as how there is substantial pressure on Santos from both the left and right of the PL, he seems shaky as it is.. <br /><br />(I assume that Micheletti is still standing even after the OAS visit is come and gone, but I don't see why this scenario couldn't happen even with Zelaya's restitution..)Doug Zylstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03023935711242140793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-40948925411349152382009-08-24T09:45:23.445-07:002009-08-24T09:45:23.445-07:00RAJ, I take as very high praise your judgment that...RAJ, I take as very high praise your judgment that I have "ably" summarized the letter in El Libertador. Thank you. <br /><br />So... why isn't this letter being discussed elsewhere? Are there serious doubts about its provenance? Why would El Libertador be given preference over, say, Tiempo or Radio Globo for a release from Zelaya?<br /><br />BTW, the writer slips with regard to voice and says, "Además, no he visto a los golpistas lamentando nada. Los únicos lamentos que escucho son los del Pueblo hondureño, al que usted y su gobierno hacen oídos sordos." If it's not a total fake, it's from Zelaya. <br /><br />Also, a separate question: any idea why the name of Dona Xiomara has not been floated for president? She would seem to be legal, she's shown enormous courage in leading demos, and she has the name recognition. Manuel Zelaya has made it clear recently that he thinks that participation in the election would legitimate the coup, so I can understand why she wouldn't be running, but I don't understand why no one seems to have mentioned her name. <br /><br />--Charles of Mercury Rising<br />www.phoenixwoman.wordpress.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-37045472475243174392009-08-23T22:37:24.759-07:002009-08-23T22:37:24.759-07:00For the story in El Libertador see Mercury Rising&...For the story in <i>El Libertador</i> see Mercury Rising's <a href="http://phoenixwoman.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/honduras-coup-act-iii-day-31/" rel="nofollow">coverage</a> which ably summarizes the points made in a letter dated August 9, attributed to the Zelaya cabinet, directed to US Ambassador Hugo Llorens. <br /><br /><a href="http://ellibertador.hn/vivvo_general/3148.html" rel="nofollow">Posted</a> on <i>El Libertador</i> on August 17, this letter indicts the US response, noting that there is widespread agreement in Honduras that the US, while condemning the coup, is not willing to act on its statements. As the writer(s) state<br /><br /><i>Los que están a favor del golpe militar lo expresan con satisfacción y los verdaderos defensores de la democracia y de la justicia, lo dicen con resentimiento e indignación.</i><br /><br />("Those that are in favor of the military coup express this with satisfaction and the true defenders of democracy and justice say it with resentment and indignation").<br /><br />Mercury Rising summarizes the rest of the points the letter makes. It needs to be translated, but it literally hurts to do so. So instead, here is how one member of the Zelaya government put it to me yesterday, commenting on the Interamerican Commission on Human Rights report:<br /><br /><i>esta es la clase de cosas que puede servir para activar a tu gobierno, si tu gob no aprieta con las visas las cuentas y el comercio, a mi ver el regimen se sostiene indefinidamente</i><br /><br />("this is the kind of thing that could serve to activate your government, if your gov doesn't press with the visas the bank accounts and trade, in my view the regime will sustain itself indefinitely")RAJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00097415587406899236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-71881637404165573752009-08-23T22:14:54.809-07:002009-08-23T22:14:54.809-07:00Doug sent me to a PDF of the Supreme Court documen...Doug sent me to a PDF of the Supreme Court document that has interesting handwritten marginal notations. With one word exception, I can read all of them, so I urge others to download this and see if they can fill in the blank.<br /><br />Twice the person writes "repetir" next to a specific section (on page 4, and again on page 5) which made me think of someone reading this as part of a broadcast.<br /><br />On page 4, the two words at the bottom read "retorno" above "renuncia". Who has to renounce what in relation to the return of what? The passage here deals with the return to the government that existed before June 28, which is the condition of the required return of President Zelaya. <br /><br />"Renuncia" is used at the top of this page in the clause describing the San Jose Accord requiring President Zelaya to renounce constitutional reform.<br /><br />So maybe these are just topic words for a writer of a story or a broadcaster. But two others seem much more interesting.<br /><br />On page 5, a marginal note reads <i>o sea presentarse o sometarse y --scar (or that is, present himself or subject himself and ...</i>. <br /><br />This is next to an underlined section noting that there are ongoing legal cases that Zelaya would have to respond to. The phrase "presentarse y someterse" is the legal formula for the legal requirement to respond to charges.<br /><br />But that "or" do something else is what I cannot quite make out. I think it is a verb, but cannot recognize it.<br /><br />Anyway, here the person making notes makes the same inference I did: this is not a very strong statement. It just says he has legal charges pending.<br /><br />And then the person making these notes marks with the word "repetir" in the margin an underlined section, part of it circled in pen, "in strict legality" Zelaya would have to be subject to the legal process; but this person circled for emphasis "mientras no existan otras disposiciones legales aplicables".<br /><br />"As long as there don't exist other applicable legal dispositions" seems to leave open the door for there being another legal option, whether that is an amnesty by Congress or the withdrawal of charges by the prosecutor or something else.<br /><br />It is a very squishy statement.RAJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00097415587406899236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-18917381672607111092009-08-23T19:10:00.785-07:002009-08-23T19:10:00.785-07:00RAJ, take a look at the story in El Libertador. Ze...RAJ, take a look at the story in El Libertador. Zelaya has laid down the law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-55886538062815684152009-08-23T16:11:30.670-07:002009-08-23T16:11:30.670-07:00The "corte superema" comments seem like ...The "corte superema" comments seem like a lot of rubbish, jibberish. If anyone (or institution) should be able to see - there were many irregularities in the "arrest" of Zelaya. Why didn't the army bring him to the "corte suprema" to be charged? So much for rule of law. I guess the army disobeyed the order, or got orders from somebody else. The coup was an action of convenience and expediency to grab power using the cover of "protecting the country". They are self-serving and just want to hold on to power. Should I say kangaroo "corte suprema" or a BANANA COURT (Honduran governmental legal body serving economic elitist interests).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-52568771826595576762009-08-23T15:00:49.058-07:002009-08-23T15:00:49.058-07:00There never was any point to this OAS visit in ter...There never was any point to this OAS visit in terms of resolving the crisis. It satisfies the need to have a formal show of listening to the de facto regime and coup supporters, who claim that the OAS should not have voted to censure them without listening to "their side".<br /><br />It appears to me that there actually are people on the pro-coup side who believe that the OAS delegation will slap its forehead and say "what were we thinking! we have to recognize you guys!". If so, they are destined to be disappointed.<br /><br />But the main thing the visit will do is feed the propaganda machine in Honduras. Watch for statements by Micheletti and proxies to the effect that just by not spitting in their face, OAS accepted that they really are the legitimate government.<br /><br />If anyone continues to hold out any hope that Micheletti and company have a secret Plan B that allows a way out of the crisis, I think they will find their hopes dashed. <br /><br />The only tiny ray of hope I can see here is that maybe, just maybe, the US will no longer have room to shelter behind the idea of a multilateral approach, and will get serious about applying economic pressure that the members of the coup regime will feel.<br /><br />Cut off aid going to right-wing factions in the country. Freeze US bank accounts of those complicit in the de facto regime. If you can't tell yet that this <b>is</b> a military coup, at least set a date in the very near future for issuing your final decision on that; preferably <i>before</i> the end of November.<br /><br />Now, this is not to say I think nothing newsworthy will happen. It is possible that the coup regime will say something revealing that we have not heard yet. It is possible that some piece of the coalition will peel off. It is certain that the resistance in Honduras will mobilize in the hope that the lazy international press will notice them and broadcast some footage.<br /><br />But since I recently heard myself describing the coup regime as moving Honduras toward Myanmar or North Korea status, I have to say, I appear to be entirely pessimistic about there being a diplomatic solution. <br /><br />Honduras seems trapped in a nightmare without an end. Even if the OAS succeeded in engineering a restoration, the polarization is so very deep and the damage to civil institutions so very harsh that it is no longer simply the loss of the progress of the last thirty years; it feels like there will be all the work of rebuilding a nation to do, and the people in power are not the ones you want doing it.<br /><br />The young, the educated, the intellectuals, the artists, the scholars, and the authentic voices of laborers, Lenca, Chorti, Miskito, Garifuna, the Catholic priests and protestant ministers laboring in the rural countryside and bearing witness, the teachers and the university professors reviled for their independence of opinion: not the OAS, these are the people who will have to do this rebuilding. Not the US. And these are the people who have never received anything but unending debt offered as "aid", exploitation alternating with neglect, from the international community. How much more can we ask of them?RAJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00097415587406899236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-78944727811006667642009-08-23T14:41:50.134-07:002009-08-23T14:41:50.134-07:00Raj -
Looking forward, any ideas on the OAS dele...Raj - <br /><br />Looking forward, any ideas on the OAS delegation; La Tribuna (http://tinyurl.com/lvkluo) is setting this up as the 'Final Encounter', and it doesn't look good for a one Mr. Zelaya.Doug Zylstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03023935711242140793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2341954168256070610.post-60121441214193466962009-08-23T14:38:13.357-07:002009-08-23T14:38:13.357-07:00RAj -
The PDF (http://bit.ly/YcV6W) has some mar...RAj - <br /><br />The PDF (http://bit.ly/YcV6W) has some markings in the margin that I can't quite make out; I don't know if that's simply Heraldo Redaccion or something else. <br /><br />I was intrigued by one handwritten note that says "Retorno Renuncia".Doug Zylstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03023935711242140793noreply@blogger.com